My Conversation with John Fedchock article @ All About Jazz

” data-original-title title>Allen Farnham, bassist

” data-original-title title>Rufus Reid, and drummer ” data-original-title title>Dave Ratajczak have all worked regularly with Fedchock in different settings through the years and have a refined sensitivity to his approach. Guest artists

” data-original-title title>Chris Potter and

” data-original-title title>Scott Wendholt lend their considerable talents to four of the tunes on the recording. With all three horns on the hard hitting title track, a Fedchock original, one gets the impression of a much larger aggregation than a sextet.

I spoke recently with John Fedchock about the new release, his writing, and his travels.

All About Jazz: How did you decide to do this CD?

John Fedchock: Well, this new one actually was something I’d always wanted to do, a small group thing, with just kind of me playing, but my first projects had been with a big band because that was where I was most known, through that kind of medium, through Woody’s band and everything, and I had a little more momentum going in with that type of approach. Plus, it involved a lot more personnel, and I could involve a lot more instruments. When you think about the average trombone record, regardless of how good it is, the person going to a CD store is not going to be looking for a trombone record, perhaps. That’s just the way it is, it’s not a very visible instrument right now, and I figured, since I had some momentum going with my writing, with the band, a little notoriety from the band, that that would make a good showcase for my playing and my writing, and it would draw in a few other listeners who would not perhaps know me, but would know some of my sidemen. And that seemed to work. So, maybe six months after we did the second recording with the big band, which was a pretty ambitious project to fund for the record company, my first project I funded myself, completely, and then shopped the tape around, and they bought the tape. Then, the second project they funded completely, and apparently the first record is still selling well, and the second one is doing well enough that they felt compelled to say “Lets go in and do something now that’s going to really focus on your playing.” So, it was something I’d always wanted to do, and it was always in the back of my mind, but it was actually the record company, Reservoir, making the suggestion.

AAJ: Oh, well that’s always good. I mean, you have played with small bands through the years, it’s not like you’re…

JF: I know, and that’s the funny thing, ’cause I’ll go places and play in a club or something, and people will say “Boy, I didn’t know you played with small groups.” And, you know, you want to be nice to the person but in the back of your mind you’re thinking “Don’t these people realize that if you want to solo at all, you have to… That’s how you work it all out, is in the small groups.” Thats how you develop your voice, any kind of individual voice you have, is through playing in small groups. But some people just don’t get it, they just think you learn how to improvise playing sixteen bars with a big band every other tune. So, it actually is interesting on this new recording, I mean, I stretch out, I play a little longer solos, but, through the nature of my big band, the solos are longer in the big band anyway. So, the solos I play on my big band records aren’t that much shorter than the ones I play on my small group record. But because it’s surrounded by background and orchestration, people for some reason think “Wow, you’re really stretching out on the small group thing… ” Which is fine, whatever they want to think, but it’s kind of a strange thing, and that’s kind of the reason why I started with the big band stuff, ’cause its a little more accessible for a lot of people and this is a little more abstract, a little more improvisatory, not that it’s way out there, but it’s modern jazz improvisation.

AAJ: Yeah, I guess it’s been kind of odd to me, doing research and just reading reviews and stuff, and seeing people say things like “In a major departure from years of big band experience… ” I guess, because if you think about it really, most of what I’ve heard hasn’t been with the big band, unless it was on record. I mean, I’ve heard you in more small group situations…

JF: Sure. But you know, being with Woody Herman, and having two recordings out, and being around New York for twelve years and none of them being small group things, people understandably make the assumption that “This is what he does, this is what he likes to do.” And it is what I do, and what I like to do, but I also like to play with small groups, so hopefully now with this new one out, people will get the idea that I like to do everything, and that might spur on some other performance opportunities.

AAJ: Right. I know that you have a lot of big band gigs lined up, but are you doing smaller group things? There is some quartet stuff lined up, is that going to be with the quartet that’s on the CD?

JF: Basically, what I’ve been doing for the past four years or so on my travels, if I do something at a university, or something with the big band, I usually try to get something nearby at a local jazz club and just play. There are restrictions playing with a big band, especially if its not your own, and the rhythm section is not sensitive to how you want to play, you’re kind of boxed in a little bit, so I always like to try and find something to couple up with it that’ll give me a little more freedom, so in many of these instances these are guys that I’ve worked with over the years, but not necessarily the guys on the recording. Although, when we play in Minneapolis next spring, that’ll be with my group. It’s a little less costly for a festival to bring in one person, obviously, but in a few cases they’ve been able to bring the whole group. But a lot of times, it’s just because I’m there, and I hook up a gig and, rather than spring for three other flights and pay three other players, I play with guys who work in that local region and there are some great players out there that I work with quite frequently so they’re at least sensitive to how I want to play and what kind of approach I want to take. Which is actually how a lot of the stuff on this recording was developed, just from playing with guys over the years and liking what certain guys do, and not what certain other guys do, and kind of picking and choosing and writing them into the arrangements.

AAJ: For the small group CD, did you basically write for the players, did you have the players in mind ahead of time, or were you just writing for the sake of writing?

JF: Kind of a little of both, because just due to the way I’ve been working traveling around and things, I’ve been kind of developing these arrangements based around the overall style of rhythm section I like to work with. There are a couple of things as far as who soloed on what, on the recording, there were certain things that I wanted certain people to play because I thought they fit those spots. But overall it wasn’t like “I’m going to write this with this player in mind… ” The tunes themselves just kind of came about, and then the arrangements kind of fleshed out through trial and error over playing in clubs around the country. But, you know, there were a couple of things, like on the blues I really wanted

” data-original-title title>Rufus Reid to play the first solo, and kind of set a tone, kind of a down kind of a thing, rather than… Most blues, people think has to be real hard-hitting, so this is a kind of a cooler thing. The first thing you hear is the bass solo, so there is no chance at all for it to get too rocking right away, and then when he’s done with his solo, I have the piano and drums drop out for my solo, so it’s another way to keep it down through the orchestration. Those type of things were decided with the recording in mind.

AAJ: Did you find yourself as you got closer to the recording changing some things knowing who was going to… knowing for instance, that Chris was going to be playing with you on a certain tune?

JF: Basically the things I changed were who was going to be playing where, in what order, and on what songs. But the choice of songs, no. There was one song, the very last tune, the samba, was originally just going to be a quartet thing, but I kind of started hearing soprano sax on that, so I wrote a soprano sax part for that.

AAJ: And it sounds great, it really does. It’s perfect for the tune.

JF: Yeah, and I thought Chris… I had not really heard Chris play much soprano, I had heard him play a lot of alto and tenor, but you know, he’s a fantastic player. So when I called him for the date I asked if he played soprano and he said yeah, so I figured he’d play that just as well as he did anything else, and he did.

AAJ: I know you and Allen have actually played quite a bit together, the other people… Dave you’ve played with a lot.

JF: Dave plays in the band. Yeah, I’ve known Dave since I was in college at Eastman, we were in college together at Eastman School of Music. And then shortly after I joined Woody’s band, he joined Woody’s band. So we’ve been playing together for years. A lot of the conceptual ideas I have as far as how a drummer would approach certain pieces of music, either big band or small group, come from players that I’ve heard that I like, and many of those concepts are from Dave. Some are from Jim Rupp in Columbus, or Jeff Hamilton in Los Angeles, people like that that I’ve worked with extensively, either on Woody’s band or in small group situations where I’ve heard them a lot and hear them do a lot of different things, so when I’m writing music, those types of sounds come into my mind. So it was a good match to have Dave play. And Rufus I’ve worked with almost every summer for the past eight years or so, teaching at the Jamie Aebersold workshops, and every evening at the camp they have faculty concerts, where you play with different faculty, so I’ve had a lot of chances to play with Rufus and I’ve always enjoyed his playing, and I knew he would feel comfortable with the other two guys and that his concept was what I was looking for as far as how he would approach the music that I wrote.

AAJ: You’ve really managed to work out a good balance between your educational activities and your performing activities.

JF: Well, I’ve tried to. Fortunately, because I write music and it’s published, a lot of educational people know about my writing, and it took a minute for them to realize “Hey, the guy can actually play too.” Because a lot of educators aren’t necessarily out using their chops all the time, they’re busy doing their jobs, they’re looking for new music, and they find new music, so they knew my name through the music, and they hadn’t heard me play. So over the last ten or twelve years or so, that’s changed because I’ve been in positions where I’ve gone out and done college jazz festivals, or adjudicated something, or just been in a position where people hear me play. Then it becomes like a word of mouth thing, now I’m getting calls for these things, basically without much solicitation. I have some advertisements and things like that, but overall it’s just word of mouth that “Hey, he comes in, he does a good job, he plays well, he writes, he can speak in an intelligent manner, he can relate to the students, he’s not stiff, he’s comfortable… ” You know, all that stuff that means a lot, and fortunately most of those I have in my package, or whatever you want to call it, it’s what they’re looking for. So that helps me just get out there and play more, and because I’ve decided to make playing jazz my life, my livelihood…

AAJ: I didn’t think there was ever a choice for you.

JF: Well, no. There never really was, it was just a matter of how I was going to pull off doing it. I’ve been living in New York since ’87, and doing gigs here, and trying to balance traveling and doing Broadway shows and all that stuff. And you know, it’s hard, because if you’re going to be playing any type of regular show or anything in New York, you have to be here at least fifty percent of the time, and I was finding it difficult to do that. And now with the traveling, it makes it next to impossible to make myself available to sub for anybody at a show. So, it’s actually kind of a bittersweet thing. It’s nice playing with good musicians and blending, but after like, a hundred and forty times playing the same notes in the same order, it’s still okay, and it’s a nice paycheck, and the Union has a nice health plan and pension and all that stuff, but I wasn’t getting a lot out of it. The reason you get into music is to play music and be creative, at least that’s what I was into. So, that kind of forced me, knowing that I wasn’t really going to be as available as I had been in the past, for general business kinds of jobs, then I had to find a way to make this other thing work, and it actually forced me to find venues to play with a small group. And then on top of that, I have a sponsorship from an instrument company, that helps out a lot in funding my appearances at schools, or any types of clinics I do.

AAJ: And that is King, right?

JF: King Instruments, it’s actually a big conglomerate now called United Musical Instruments, but I play a King trombone. But just that little bit extra from them, helps me make up for what I might be missing here in town, and kind of affords me to be able to play jazz for a living, which is pretty nuts, especially being a trombone player.

AAJ: I remember several years ago hearing you say something to the effect of “The trombone is like the dinosaur.” Do you still feel that way?

JF: Well, I think that’s the way people view it. If I meet someone for the first time, and I tell them that I play jazz, and I’m a trombone player, there’s a certain sound in everyone’s mind’s ear that comes up, and it’s not really the way I play. It’s more in your face, loud, humorous, kind of a lot of effects, and not necessarily a sophisticated negotiation of intricate chords and melodicism. That’s not the first thing that comes to mind, unless you’re someone of the older generation that recalls melodic trombone. Just for the general public, that’s the way they view it, is as an older kind of thing. I think it’s one of the more versatile instruments in jazz, but unfortunately it’s not very visible in the media, you don’t see it on T.V. that often, and in popular music you don’t really hear the trombone anymore, as you even did ten years ago. So, in a way, it’s liberating, ’cause you got nothing to lose. And secondly, if you can do it well, since people never hear it, they’re really impressed when they hear someone do something well, because they just expect it to be some stupid sounding goofy thing. So, if you come out there and you play something hip, and melodic, and intricate, then all of a sudden you get a lot of comments, “Boy, I’ve never heard the instrument played like that before… ” and I’m biting it back, but I want to say, “How many times have you heard the instrument ever?” Because most people don’t, they don’t hear it, they just have this view in their mind as to what it is, so once again, it’s a good thing and it’s a bad thing.

AAJ: I guess to me it’s more visible and more evident now than it has been for a while.

JF: It’s beginning to be, now there’s the Ska craze, and then there’s the jump bands, but I have a little issue with them too, because once again it’s feeding the stereotype. Even with the saxophone and trumpet solos, and the way the drummers play, people are starting to expect to hear that now, which is really putting you in a box. So, I’d almost rather they don’t hear trombone at all, then when they hear me, they’re starting with a fresh palette. Now it’s starting to create some preconceived notions on the part of people that occasionally will hear that.

AAJ: Yeah, I have to say that I haven’t really listened to a lot of the current kind of so-called swing stuff that’s going on.

JF: It’s basically

” data-original-title title>Louis Jordan music, engineered by a rock and roll guy, so you get a lot of bass drum, a lot of snare drum, and everybody’s just playing… in your face. Which, if people enjoy it, that’s fine. My style is more intimate, and it kind of takes people by surprise when they first hear it, because I start out playing… lightly. And they don’t expect that. Which is not a bad thing either, but as long as they allow me to do what I do, and give me a chance to convince them that I do it well, I’m cool with that.

AAJ: One of the most commonly used adjectives in describing you or your playing is virtuosity. Virtuosic. Virtuoso.

JF: Well, I don’t want to argue with it. I’ll accept that with a smile. I probably wouldn’t describe my playing in that manner, but once again, it’s a relative term. I feel like there’s a lot of things I can’t do, on my instrument, and as far as I’m concerned, when you say the word virtuosic, it means being able to do anything possible that the instrument can handle, and right now I feel like I have a lot of limitations, which I guess is why I continue to practice, and why anybody does. But, you know, if the question is how much is enough technique, I don’t know. It depends on what I’m hearing in my head, and if I can execute it, then that’s enough technique. But right now I’m kind of on the border of sometimes being able to play everything I hear, but sometimes not. So, I can’t call myself virtuosic. But I’ve gone to a conservatory, I’ve studied classical music, and I’ve studied the mechanics of the instrument, and I practice technique, so that’s going to come into play when I go to perform. And a lot of my favorite players that I’ve listened to over the years and try to emulate, like

” data-original-title title>J.J. Johnson or

” data-original-title title>Slide Hampton or

” data-original-title title>Carl Fontana or

” data-original-title title>Frank Rosolino, all had a lot of technique, they got around their instrument. They danced with their instrument, and I guess that’s a form of virtuosity. You know, you could say that Fred Astaire was a virtuoso. I don’t claim to have anything close to what those guys do, but I try to emulate what they did, and maybe just because of that relationship, it’s viewed as being virtuosic. That’s the best I can say for myself.

AAJ: On trombone, who would you consider your major influence?

JF: Well, those four are probably, with the addition of

” data-original-title title>Urbie Green, who was my first huge influence in high school. He was the first guy I heard in high school, and it was a fluke, I just happened to pick up one of his records and didn’t really know who he was, but I bought it. What struck me was that he could do everything, he could play high, he could play low, he could play fast, he could play ballads, he could play jazz, he played in tune, and he could play lead trombone, and all this stuff, so I thought to myself, “Okay, if you want to be a jazz musician, this is what you’ve got to do.” And for several years I’m thinking to myself, you have to be able to do everything. Which, I’m glad he was the first guy I discovered, because if it had been somebody else, I may not have… well, who knows, it may have ended up good the other way too, but I may have followed a different path. Then I discovered J.J. later in high school, and

” data-original-title title>Benny Green, actually, I like Benny Green’s playing a lot. Then I discovered Carl Fontana and Frank Rosolino. And also, when I was in high school,

” data-original-title title>Bill Watrous had all these big band records out, which were very big, they were Grammy-nominated recordings, and it was kind of a new sound, they were playing Latin music, and kind of modern rhythms, and obviously Bill played his instrument incredibly, so that was inspiring too, because at that point I thought that being a trombone player and leading a big band was something that happened sixty years ago. So that gave me a little hope that it could still happen.

AAJ: So about how old were you when you decided that was what you wanted to do?

JF: Maybe… A junior in high school. I had been interested in music, but I wanted to be an artist, I was in commercial art, I wanted to be a commercial artist, and then around the end of my sophomore year in high school I got really bit by the music bug and that was it. And fortunately, my parents were very supportive.

AAJ: Did you feel like you received support from the beginning with your music in other areas, besides parental?

JF: Support? Well, my music teachers and things, but to be honest, the big thing was, I was a quiet kid and I’m still kind of a quiet guy, but excelling in music in the band was one of the first times I had a positive experience with a group of peers and that was something I didn’t want to stop, I really enjoyed not necessarily being in the spotlight, but being appreciated for doing something well. And that’s probably a big part of what fed my interest.

AAJ: You had found a way to do that without actually having to talk. A way to express yourself without …

JF: Right, non-verbal communication. And to be honest it’s worked for me a lot better overseas than trying to speak French in Paris. I can go to any country and barely say hello to somebody, but go up on the stage and play with them and communicate, and it’s unbelievable. And a lot of people don’t get that part of it, but that’s the great thing about it, it’s just a way to communicate with people another way, a different language.

AAJ: Are you of the opinion that you’re much more appreciated in other countries than you are here, as far as the music goes?

JF: No, I don’t believe that. I think the music in general is, I think jazz in general is. But if you’re talking about me personally, I’d say no. Just because I do have a lot of people that support me here in the States, I occasionally work over in Europe but I’m getting constant calls to come and perform with people in the states. So I can’t say that I’m appreciated more over there, otherwise I’d be making a living over there. I haven’t had much exposure over there outside of the big band thing anyway, so that’s another point too. But a lot of big band fans over there know who I am, and have bought my recordings, but you know, that’s that.

AAJ: So, you’re involved with the IAJE, you’re doing some stuff with them. What’s your involvement with them? Basically you graduated with a dual degree, didn’t you?

JF: Yeah, at Ohio State I was one of their first Jazz Studies graduates.

AAJ: Education as well as performance?

JF: Yeah, I got a music education degree, I mean, my thought was that I was going to be a band director. But then my sophomore year they started the Jazz Studies degree, so I decided to go for a dual degree there, so I got a Music Ed. degree and I was certified, I did my student teaching and all that stuff, and then I got the Jazz Studies degree. After the summer after my freshman year, I was basically in school until I got in Woody’s band, because I went to school every summer. Even if I went home to Cleveland, I took summer classes up there of just the general basic education requirements, so that I could load up on the music courses when I was in Columbus. So, I basically graduated from Ohio State with two degrees, the end of July, beginning of August of ’79, and then two weeks later I was at Eastman, working on my graduate degree. So, by the time I got on Woody’s band, I was ready to let loose, I was ready to burst.

AAJ: Yeah, I bet. That really requires a lot of focus. And dedication, something that I think a lot of us suffer from a lack of. So it must be kind of gratifying to be able to make your career basically performing, but you’re also involved in education in a way that’s very important.

JF: Yeah, it’s kind of nice, I can teach, but … being a performer, going to a school and just kind of going in for a couple of days, I can kind of … You know, it’s an easy way out too, to be honest with you, the people that are in there in the trenches with the regular 9 to 5 teaching jobs at a college or a high school, those people are workin’ hard, and I come in for a couple of days and impart whatever information or knowledge or whatever I can give these kids, but then I’m gone two days later. So hopefully I’ll leave them with something, if not just some inspiration. You know, I talk about my writing and my playing, and just certain things about how to get from point A to point B and hopefully that will give them some sort of practical information that they might not be getting through their experience at school. And so it still gives me a chance to interact with the students and teach, but it doesn’t really deprive my opportunities as a performer. So yeah, it’s nice. My graduate degree was in Jazz Studies as well, but in performance.

AAJ: When did you start actually writing?

JF: Well, I didn’t write anything at Ohio State. I wrote a little bit in high school, I just took some classical theory in high school, and I wrote some things there, but they weren’t very structurally sound. Then I went to Ohio State and I was in Music Ed and Jazz Studies but I never got involved in writing.

AAJ: No composition classes?

JF: No, because I was an education major. There was one semester of arranging with the Jazz Studies degree, but that was kind of a quick in and out and I didn’t really feel like I had a handle on it. But then I went to Eastman, and being a Jazz Masters student there, part of the requirement was taking a year of arranging with Rayburn Wright, who has since passed away, but was a great arranging teacher, and something clicked. The way he explained things and just the way everything unfolded, within six months or so I was starting to write. Then I went on the road six months after that, after my first year at Eastman, and basically just took my class notes with me on the road, and that was my text. And then five years later I went back to finish my degree, and that’s when he kind of looked over the stuff I had written and we fine tuned a couple of things and then that was pretty much it, so basically my writing experience, the way I learned to write, was in the heat of battle. My first charts were for Woody’s band.

AAJ: What was the first tune you arranged for them?

JF: It was a

” data-original-title title>Lou Donaldson tune called “Fried Buzzard.” It just happened that this guy who was my neighbor in the dorms at Ohio State, had this Lou Donaldson record that his brother had bought him, and I liked the tune, and we were at this club in New Orleans with the band for six months. It was called “Woody Herman’s,” and we were going to be there half the year, and tour the other half of the year, but the club ended up falling through after about a year. But I figured if I was going to be in the same place for six months, and the band is there every night, if I’m ever going to try it this would be the time. So I took my time and made sure to do it right and had to make a lot of changes, but that was the first chart I wrote.

AAJ: And what about composition?

JF: Composition… For Woody’s band, I wrote a tune called “The Great Escape,” about a year later that we recorded on one of his records. I had written a couple of little tunes before that, but not for big band. I had written a couple of little things in high school, and for arranging class I wrote a small group thing, but overall I hadn’t done much composing. I still consider myself more an arranger than a composer.

AAJ: But there are some great tunes on this CD, both of the last two I really like.

JF: Well, thank you.

AAJ: How did you decide to do “I’m Through With Love?” That’s such a great tune and it’s so rarely done.

JF: I wanted to find a standard that was seldom played, and I wanted something that was kind of like a medium, lighter thing, and I was going through all these books and I couldn’t find anything that resembled what I was looking for, and so I thought to myself, “Well, why does it have to be a medium tune? Maybe I could do a ballad and do it up-tempo.” So then I started looking through all the ballads, and that’s when I came up with it. The way the melody was broken into smaller pieces, I thought I could maybe do something with the harmony there, and then on the chorus kind of reharmonizing some of the stuff, and it seemed to work out well rhythmically too. So that’s kind of what drew me to it, if it was a song with a lot of long note values it probably wouldn’t have worked.

AAJ: Yeah, well it sounds really nice. What are you listening to these days? Do you listen to a lot of contemporary music?

JF: It really depends. From time to time, like right now I’m writing a couple of things, so I’m listening to stuff from the sixties. I’ll just tell you what’s on the top of my CD player right now. I’ve got a

” data-original-title title>Thad Jones /

” data-original-title title>Mel Lewis recording with

” data-original-title title>Rhoda Scott, I’ve got two Mahler symphonies,

” data-original-title title>Joe Henderson Mode for Joe, The Incredible Jimmy Smith, and a

” data-original-title title>Larry Young album with

” data-original-title title>Grant Green. That’s what’s in the CD player right now, but you know, it just depends. I get a bunch of stuff, I’ll just leaf through some things and pull some things out. I haven’t bought anything in several months, I just kind of go on binges. I have

” data-original-title title>Steve Davis‘s new record, a trombone player. He plays with

” data-original-title title>Chick Corea. But, you know, various things. A little of this, a little of that. I have the new

” data-original-title title>Steely Dan record.

AAJ: With Chris? How’s that?

JF: He sounds great on the whole thing.

AAJ: He’s such an amazing player, isn’t he?

JF: Yeah, I was just interested to hear because I remember the one’s from the ’70s with

” data-original-title title>Wayne Shorterand I just thought, “Well, that’s kind of cool, some nice stuff for Chris to play on… ” and they let him play, they let him stretch out, he sounds good. The tunes are very similar to what they were in the ’70s. But Chris gets a lot of solo space, it’s nice. He sounds so great, and I knew on the one tune on the record, the second to the last tune, “Empty Promises,” he plays twice as long as anyone else does, and that was kind of a pre-planned thing. I wanted him to start out kind of esoterically and then build into a frenzy, and I wanted the height of the frenzy to be his solo, so I gave him an extra chorus, I gave him a little more room to build into that. And they’re really hard changes, it’s not like a blues or something, it’s intricate chords that don’t necessarily relate to one another, and he just tore it up.

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