Adventures In Sound article @ All About Jazz

” data-original-title title>Coleman Hawkins,

” data-original-title title>Joe Lovano and

” data-original-title title>Branford Marsalis by critics scrabbling to describe her warm, robust and melodic playing.

Despite the universal praise for her formidable chops, Gillard keeps herself grounded. She is both sympathetic and tolerant toward jazz critics. “It must be hard as a writer, to put a frame of reference to a sound. It’s normal to draw comparisons to give someone some sort of context for a sound.”

She also remains extremely humble. “I don’t—for a second—consider myself within those ranks one bit. I know that I don’t have a note to play without any of those guys, without Joe and Dex and Sonny, and Branford and Joe Lovano—they are all such big influences on me,” she acknowledges, her Ohio accent undiluted despite living in Northern Ireland since 2012.

“If those comparisons make someone want to listen to me then that is a positive thing. These guys are the lineage. I can’t worry about whether I sound like this person or that person, I’ve just got to keep playing with sincerity and I sincerely love all of them,” she said with a laugh.

Gillard certainly has her own sound. It was there on her debut album as leader, Day One (Inner Circle Music, 2009). It is there on RBG Trio (Auragami Records, 2023), with bassist

” data-original-title title>Dave Redmond and drummer

” data-original-title title>Kevin Brady. It is a sound as influenced by r&b, soul, funk and grunge as it is by straight-ahead jazz.

With RBG Trio Gillard is making waves. The album has received great reviews, with invitations to major festivals including EGF London Jazz Festival and the Manchester Jazz Festival coming in its wake.

Ireland’s Call

Gillard had heard of Kevin Brady before she relocated to Ireland. A friend, New York baritone saxophonist

” data-original-title title>Lauren Sevian had played with Brady in Cork. When Gillard said she was moving to Ireland, Sevian suggested that she check him out.

The saxophonist did hook up with Brady on a tune with saxophonist Gay McIntrye at the Derry Jazz Festival, but it would be a few years before the chance to play together as a trio arose.

Brady and Redmond almost come as a package, having played together for around twenty years with the likes of

” data-original-title title>Norma Winstone,

” data-original-title title>Tommy Halferty,

” data-original-title title>Larry Coryell and

” data-original-title title>Bill Carrothers.

“I had always wanted to play with Kevin and Dave,” says Gillard. “They’re known for their tight lock-up together.”

The chance came when Dublin promoters Improvised Music Company invited Gillard to head a gig at The Wild Duck in January 2019. She approached Redmond and Brady, and happily, both were available.

Gillard sent over samples of her recordings for the bassist and drummer to check out, but that was it for preparation. “There was no rehearsing,” Gillard recalls. “It was laid back. There was no expectation of perfection. We’ll just have some fun, right?”

In a short set, the trio played Gillard’s tunes, a couple of standards and

” data-original-title title>Sam Rivers‘ “Cyclic Episode.”

“It felt very natural from the jump,” says Gillard. “We were making music right away and that was exciting. And the craic was good. We all felt that the gig went well, and we decided that going forward we’d like to play more.”

The opportunity to reconvene came sooner than anticipated when pianist Carrothers was unable to make a Kevin Brady Quartet gig in Mexico City. Brady immediately thought of Gillard and the saxophonist duly found herself on a plane bound for Mexico.

“That was another amazing show. We were outdoors playing to a huge crowd that was really enthusiastic about jazz. We also gave a masterclass at the university. I’d love to go back there as soon as possible!” says Gillard.

New Tricks

With momentum behind it, the RBG Trio kept booking gigs and cementing its identity. There were plans to record, but in March 2020 the Covid-19 pandemic struck and the trio, like musicians everywhere, faced a slew of cancellations.

It was a strange period. “I didn’t play saxophone a lot during that time. I’m someone who really draws inspiration from the people I play with. I was tired of hearing myself, quite frankly,” Gillard laughs. “Tired of my sound, tired of the same old crap I was playing. I get my ideas and inspiration from the moment I’m in, and from the people I’m playing with. It’s a reciprocal thing and without it I felt pretty lost.”

However, there were positives. “The pandemic was a great time for songwriting and singing, producing and learning about mixing,” Gillard recalls. “I practiced singing a ton. I watched so many audio-engineering videos and read a lot. I tried to keep learning, and I’m happy to say that I did. I also went crazy learning new recipes. My husband and I definitely levelled up in the kitchen!” she laughs. “It could have been a lot worse. We were really fortunate to have each other and able to get by without wanting for any essentials.”

Without A Net

The RBG Trio released the single “Black Hole Sun” by Soundgarden in 2020, and the Gillard original “Neither Here Nor There” in 2022. Surprisingly, neither made RBG Trio, released in autumn 2023. The album features original compositions, with all three contributing compositions. Nor was the material road tested prior to entering the studio—a deliberate choice, it transpires. “It just kind of organically came together that way. The older I get with this music thing the more I realize that you have to rely on your internal musicianship and then you get to see what you’re really made of,” Gillard explains.

“I used to stress over every perceived misstep in the music but now I realize that those end up being some of my absolute favorite moments. You can have a whole concept in mind but then when you do it, it can fall flat. The important thing was that I just wanted everyone’s voice to be heard, to interpret the tunes in our own way. We thrive the most when things are new and fresh. We just happen to be better when we are on our toes a bit, when there’s no time to settle into patterns. I think it yielded a special result because there was no safety net, no autopilot mode, and no preconception for what it needed to be. We succumbed to the lyricism of the music rather than athleticism.”

The fact that everyone contributes compositions pleases Gillard. “Having a trio sound that is reflective of everyone’s perspective is a truly great thing. It is a high honor to interpret other people’s music. I have always loved trying to see their vision. From my perspective as someone who writes, I have a vision in mind but that is usually far exceeded by the musicians who play on it. I like to be on the other side of that, to help other people’s music come alive. I’d love to see it be even more of a collective effort moving forward.”

Kevin Brady & Dave Redmond: Wicked Rhythms, Pretty Notes

Gillard admires her trio partners and what they bring to the music. “Kevin is an encyclopedia of drum knowledge. He knows all the Afro-Cuban grooves, all the African grooves. He knows so much about jazz drums. He is technically proficient and has a really good, solid time feel. He uses all of these things to serve the music very well. When it’s time for him to solo it’s really exciting; he definitely has those higher gears. I always feel a bit on edge with him and I like that feeling as a player. I don’t want to feel so relaxed that I get complacent.”

As with Brady’s, Gillard finds numerous strengths in Redmond’s playing.

“Dave has got a big old sound! It sounds so beautiful. He’s very understated in his demeanor, but in the music the moves he’s making are very strong. He’ll pick groove over anything that could make the music fall apart—like any good composer or producer—but he knows what to play in the cracks, between the lines. He picks the pretty notes. I’m someone who always aims to pick the pretty notes too so we both have that mentality—we want to make the most beautiful choice we can make. I write tunes where sometimes we’re playing things together in harmony and he’s got a wonderful way of blending with the tenor that’s really beautiful. He’s got so much of the tradition in his sound.”

After two decades playing together Brady and Redmond have developed a deep understanding, and there is no coasting in comfort zones.

“Together, their time is very locked, but they still throw me curveballs to keep me on my toes. They put a fire behind me, and I like that. We have a ton of influences in common, but we have enough differences that there is always a feeling it can go somewhere totally different. Continuing to try new sounds and see where they lead is an exciting prospect and I happily accept wherever that leads.”

Chasing Comets

RBG Trio’s music took a radical turn at the end of 2023, when a commission from Improvised Music Company and Moving On Music—Ireland’s premier jazz/improvised music promoters—presented an opportunity for Gillard. Drawing on myriad influences, from video game music to Parliament/Funkadelic, RBG Trio plugged their instruments in and armed themselves with pedal boards. The four-part suite Gillard wrote in this new headspace premiered in Dublin and Belfast in January 2024 to enthusiastic audiences.

All About Jazz’ review of the RBG Trio’s new direction—on a bill that also featured new works by the

” data-original-title title>Carole Nelson Trio and ” data-original-title title>Bianca Gannon—described the future-funk as a cross between

” data-original-title title>Joe Zawinul and

” data-original-title title>Bootsy Collins. “I didn’t expect people to dig that suite as much as they did,” confesses Gillard.

The genesis of the music and the new sound came from unusual though formative sources. “I had the opportunity to write something that was so different to what I had previously done without any pressure or expectation. I dived into my 10-year-old self,” Gillard says, laughing.

“Looking back at the chipset tunes on Sonic the Hedgehog for Sega Genesis and Street Fighter sort of through the lens of an outer space theme and influences by P-Funk was such an enjoyable experience. Dave came alive with the bass effects. And Kevin too, we were just having a blast with it.”

Gillard explains the theory behind her use of technology. “It was really cool to use effects as a way to comp voicings behind bass and drums on the saxophone and use an interval to fill out a chord with the bass in counterpoint, creating a horn section-like sound and using space echo and ping pong delays. There is so much possibility there,” she enthuses.

“There are a lot of bands using effects, and it’s not a new thing to use effects on saxophone, I’m well aware of that, but it was like what can I do with it? I feel like we’re doing something quite different.”

For Gillard these are still early days in this new sonic adventure.

“I’m still very much at the beginning of my journey with these effects. I have used them on guitar, but on saxophone it’s a series of brand new waters to navigate. Some effects just don’t sound good on saxophone, so you have to create layers and presets. I want to gradually get deeper into harmonizing and creating more textures. The harmonizer I have now does allow me quite a lot of freedom, but really I want to be able to program specific intervals and chords that will follow the notes I play.”

The enthusiastic responses in Dublin and Belfast to the newfangled RBG Trio has been encouraging for Gillard, proving that she was right to trust her musical instincts.

“We said, well, people dig this, and we obviously dig it, let’s keep expanding the sound. Kevin and Dave both picked up some new gear that we’ve yet to play around with. I can’t wait to see what sounds they come up with. I feel with this trio that we can morph into many different sounds,” ventures Gillard. “So far we’ve got the traditional acoustic treatment that’s rooted in bop and post-bop sounds, a contemporary sound, we’ve now got the effects and electric sound, and we’ve got a bit of a grunge sound as well. I’d like to explore more free improvisation. How many sounds can we get into?”

A Song And A Dance

Gillard got into all sorts of sounds at an early age. “My mom had such great taste in music. She was listening to

” data-original-title title>Teddy Pendergrass and the Isley Brothers,

” data-original-title title>Miles Davis and (

” data-original-title title>Herbie Hancock‘s) Headhunters. There was always good music on at our house from soul and r&b to classic rock, jazz and classical music. I wanted to be a part of anything music-or dance-related. I was magnetically drawn to piano and singing at a young age and begged to play wherever I could see one, no matter how inconvenient the moment was for me to ask. I used to drive my parents crazy!” Gillard laughs. “I started taking lessons when I was six and a half. All through my childhood I had a strong desire to make music, to perform and entertain people. I was definitely weirdly confident as a child.”

Gillard was 11 when her favorite piano teacher retired, but it coincided with choosing a band instrument at her elementary school. “Of course, I chose the tenor saxophone. I had heard it here and there on records mom would play. My grandfather on my dad’s side listened to some (Count) Basie and (Duke) Ellington and I loved the big band sound. We had a big band in my high school. I couldn’t wait to be old enough to join. One of my first introductions to jazz was through big band music. I just really loved the sound of saxophone. It looked like it would be fun to play. So, I began that journey. I still play piano today but I wouldn’t consider myself a pianist by any means.”

Gillard’s desire to play tenor saxophone met with resistance from the school. “At my age I was small, and they said, ‘You must start on alto.’ They tried to convince me to play trombone or flute or something and I was like ‘No. I want to play tenor,’ Gillard laughs. “It was as big as me. I had to rest it on my foot, but I was stubborn. I think what attracted me to the tenor most of all is that it sounds the most like the human voice of all the saxophones. It has such a huge frequency range. You can go really, really low and really high on the one instrument. You can really sing through it.”

Ridgeway, Ohio, where Gillard grew up, had a population of around 400 people. Yet her high school had a big band that operated year-round because there were not enough people for a concert band. “We were so lucky to have a great band director in Jim Hill who was a great altoist and clarinetist himself. He loved Glen Miller,

” data-original-title title>Artie Shaw, Basie and Ellington.”

Ode To Jim Hill

Between the ages of 13 to 18 Gillard played a set of big band music every morning. “We had a 400-chart numbered dance band book, and he would call a set every morning for our rehearsal. It was such a rare experience to get. Especially rare for such a small-town high school. We were really lucky to have Jim Hill.”

By her mid-teens Gillard was winning soloist awards. Around this time that she started to connect with teachers in Columbus and gradually expanded her musical horizons. “It was 60 miles away, but I would be down there three or four times a week, playing in various ensembles and taking lessons.”

Opportunities arose for Gillard to sub in big bands and on small band gigs. She attended Ohio State University for a year where she played with many musicians. Those were formative times, as Gillard recalls: “This great bassist

” data-original-title title>Roger Hines was very kind to me and often hired me in his band called Madrugada that he co-leads with a great guitarist Stan Smith. That was one of my first creative jazz gigs. These guys have done some seriously heavy gigs in their careers but they’re always searching and evolving. I learned so much from them and I’m so grateful for that experience.”

Columbus’ jazz scene then was vibrant. “There used to be a great jam session in this club called Barrister Hall and another club called 501—it’s called Park Street Tavern now, and others—so there were regular jam sessions to go to. There were great gigs to go to at Dick’s Den, you could play a lot of creative music there. There was straight ahead, bebop, there were big bands, organ groups like

” data-original-title title>Bobby Floyd,

” data-original-title title>Tony Monaco, ” data-original-title title>Hank Marr—they were all killin’ it on the scene. There was just so much good jazz, and different types of jazz. It was really inspiring to be a part of that scene as a student especially, because there were just so many good players. My teachers Gene Walker,

” data-original-title title>Michael Cox and

” data-original-title title>Pete Mills—all incredible saxophonists.”

One For Gene Walker

Gene Walker, with whom Gillard took weekly lessons, was an important mentor. “I wouldn’t have anything to say on my instrument without Gene Walker. He really took his time with me and gave me some of my first gigs. He had a unique teaching style, where we would just trade. I didn’t really have any theory knowledge at that point, I just had strong ears. I connected my ear to the theory later. We’d play along to records. He knew that I could hear it, that I could get it, so he really took the time and believed in me. He passed on so much knowledge and it was truly in the oral tradition. There was something so golden and pure about learning the music that way and it would be years before I would begin to understand and truly appreciate the significance of it. He was a very special saxophonist, artist and human.”

Walker’s influence continues to inform Gillard’s playing today. “He’s in the back of my mind all the time when I’m making music. His sound, his phrasing and the lessons he taught me are forever imprinted. The blues was in everything he played, whether it was obvious or not, and I feel that’s where I come from. I’m always connected to that. Gene’s importance can’t be overstated. Gene gave a lot of musicians their first gig and they would all tell you how lucky they are to have had him as a mentor, teacher and friend. I really miss him. His sound lives on!”

New York: The Charli Persip Years

In 2003 Gillard moved to New York where she studied at The New School with some distinguished names. “I had some great ensemble teachers there like

” data-original-title title>Cecil Bridgewater,

” data-original-title title>Jane Ira Bloom,

” data-original-title title>Charles Tolliver, and

” data-original-title title>Charlie Persip, who I ended up playing in his big band and quintet. When I first saw that I was going to be in his ensemble I freaked out because Dizzy Gillespie at Newport was one of the first records I ever bought, and Charli is on that. You know, oh my God, he’s on Sonny Side Up!” Gillard laughs incredulously.

Apart from fifteen albums with Gillespie, Persip also recorded with

” data-original-title title>Ray Charles and

” data-original-title title>Louis Jordan. Gillard remembers him fondly. “He was really funny, very encouraging. He would show love if he liked something you played. He elevated those around him. He was always learning new things and kept trying to go further on the drums. That really inspired me. I want to always be a student like that.”

Gillard admired Persip’s down-to-earth demeanor and his sense of fun. Gillard has imbued another of Persip’s practices: “He was also very cool about band members bringing in tunes. He encouraged us to bring in original music or arrangements. He loved it. His choices were always for the music. That stuck with me. That’s how I try to lead, always.”

Gillard’s tenure in Persip’s bands is recorded for posterity on the Supersound big band album Intrinsic Evolution (CPP, 2008), contributing the title track. “I was so young then,” says Gillard. “The fact that he gave me that opportunity means a lot to me. I’ll always be grateful.”

The Jazz Singer

Though RBG Trio takes up much of Gillard’s creative time and energy, there are many strings to her bow, including her gigs as a singer. Gillard is typically modest about her vocal talents. “I wouldn’t say I have found my voice as a jazz singer yet. I’m probably more at home singing soul and r&b, and when I sing jazz those things are always in the background. I’ve got things like

” data-original-title title>Donny Hathaway coming into my jazz singing,” she laughs.

Song selection on these gigs references doyens of the art such as

” data-original-title title>Ella Fitzgerald,

” data-original-title title>Sarah Vaughan and

” data-original-title title>Nancy Wilson, but Gillard is not about imitation. “It is about how I interpret these tunes and make them relevant to me and to today. I’m hoping that I can make harmonic choices that are interesting to me, that have inflections of soul that don’t seem out of place, and ultimately connect with people. I feel like I’m getting better with every gig. I’ve got really supportive people around me and I’m able to keep upping the ante each time. I feel really good about that.”

For her vocal gigs Gillard tends to park her saxophone for the evening. “I prefer to keep them separated where possible.” Gillard does mix and match a little in her Derry-based band, House of Jade Quintet (named after the

” data-original-title title>Wayne Shorter tune) with husband Michael Barkley on trumpet and flugelhorn, pianist ” data-original-title title>John Leighton, bassist Rohan Armstrong and drummer James Anderson. “I’ll sing a tune or two with that band, you know, some Nancy and Cannonball, from that record (Nancy Wilson/Cannonball Adderley Capitol, 1962), but I mostly don’t like to go back and forth too much. The two sides of me are very different. I think I do better if I focus on one at a time. I like to do a gig of all vocals and really lean into it.”

Medicine Show

Another project close to Gillard’s heart is Joyology, a duo with John Leighton that takes music into care homes, special schools and primary schools. “John is a very soulful player who loves the blues, and we always connect with that feeling. John and I decided to join Live Music Now. They’re a great organization that facilitates bringing music to those areas in communities all over UK and Northern Ireland. We do introductions to jazz, some are interactive workshops, others are performances. It is the most fun and rewarding kind of gig. Going to special schools a few months at a time, working with kids every week and watching how the music can help them open up, and how medicinal it truly is makes me wish everyone had this kind of access. It encourages them to take risks and say yes to things,” Gillard explains.

“We play in dementia wards sometimes and if you play the right tune and somebody’s face just lights up and they start singing with you… it’s just the most beautiful thing. I didn’t know how much I needed to do that until I was doing it.”

What Really Counts…

As for where the music will lead her and RBG Trio, Gillard adopts a relaxed attitude. “We’re not abandoning acoustic jazz by any stretch. There is always more of that. I have no expectation of where we’ll be, but I’m always pleasantly surprised. There are always new opportunities to play presenting themselves. Ultimately, artistic viability is the most important thing to me. I want to be able to look back on this in ten years and be happy with my decisions, even if I cringe at my solos a little,” Gillard laughs.

Gillard takes the critics’ glowing comparisons with a pinch of salt, but there are some voices that resonate more than others, especially those people who approach Gillard after a gig to tell her how inspiring she is.

“That is one of the most rewarding things,” recognizes Gillard. “For me as a teacher, helping someone get started on their path, wherever they’re headed, that’s one of the most amazing things you can do. I’ve had some wonderful people do that for me, and to be in that role now, and to be able to pass that on … I get so much joy out of it. It’s a beautiful feeling when someone says, ‘you inspired me to want to play music.’ I can’t really think of a better compliment.”

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