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Jazz Articles » Chats with Cats » The Collective Organizer: Kyle Knoke
The idea is that the Midwest could become
a viable financial and educational
destination for touring artists.
Kyle Knoke
It’s no revelation that the U.S.A. is a big country and the “fruited plains” is a vast area with “spacious skies.” While that’s great for agriculture and makes a pretty song it’s not so good for touring musicians. The distances between venues can often deter prominent jazz musicians from traveling this region as jazz clubs aren’t exactly aplenty in this space to begin with and wrangling the ones that do exist into a feasible route can be a very difficult task.
But one person thinks he’s solved this dilemma by unifying these clubs into a consortium that will facilitate a viable path for touring: a win-win for everybody. The organizer is Kyle Knoke and his brainchild is the Midwest Jazz Collective which is hosting its inaugural run coming up with trumpeter/vocalist
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data-original-title=”” title=””>Benny Benack. Kyle explained to me how this all came about and his hopes for it moving into the future.
About Kyle Knoke
Kyle Knoke has a background in fashion design, graphic design, and marketing, yet he curates a jazz series in Eastern Wisconsin called the Jazz Coterie which programs a diverse lineup ranging from the American Songbook to genre-blurring artists of more contemporary styles. The Jazz Coterie is also committed to integrating educational opportunities with their visiting artists and local high schools and universities. They organize master classes and offer special opportunities for students to attend their live events. Mr. Knoke’s latest enterprise is the Midwest Jazz Collective which unites jazz clubs throughout the Midwestern USA into an organization whose purpose is to facilitate a viable path for touring artists to perform and teach there.
All About Jazz: It seems like you’re very busy managing all kinds of jazz events and organizations. Tell me how you got into this.
Kyle Knoke: Well, professionally I have a background in graphic design and marketing communications and I’ve just always been a jazz man, but not a jazz musician. This Jazz Coterie thing, which is a monthly concert series that I’ve been doing for about the past five years, just started with musician friends within the region and a relationship with a couple of non-traditional music venues. They were venues that could accommodate music events and just wanted to start hosting some jazz things. That was right before the pandemic and I was sort of enjoying what was happening. Then, during the pandemic, I decided that if I were to get back on this horse coming out of it, I wanted to do something a little more with it. So, I started reaching out to, and bringing in, more national touring acts. And, yeah, for four solid years Jazz Coterie has been scheduling this monthly concert series with varying degrees of success.
AAJ: So you didn’t have any background in music, I mean you said you’re not a musician, but you just started setting up this jazz series. I find that really interesting.
KK: I think part of it is that I always was kind of a jazz-club kid. Like if I lived in Chicago or New York for a little bit… yea, I don’t know. I have a lot of friends here in the East central Wisconsin area that are jazz musicians and we have a pretty thriving community. And I like to present things. By nature, I’m a marketer and just enjoy presenting talent. That was the foundation of the Jazz Coterie and then there’s this Midwest Jazz Collective.
AAJ: OK, yeah, that was next on my list to ask about. Tell me how the Midwest Jazz Collective came to be and about your part in it.
KK: So, this just all started with Jazz Coterie and I can’t say that anything was masterminded. I just kept feeling my way through this industry and I’ve always been of that mindset or nature that’s like, “hey, doesn’t that sound like a good idea?” and then you find yourself so far down the road that you can’t turn back. All of a sudden, you’re committed to something that takes over your life.
So ironically, with Jazz Coterie, Benny Benack was one of the first nationally touring artists that we brought through our series. But I learned early on that, from a financial standpoint, there is no way for a jazz club or jazz series interested in presenting national talent to make that work in a small room unless you are really hooked up and really smart about route booking. I didn’t even know what route booking was. I just discovered the concept on my own and, for a while, paid pretty close attention to who was hitting clubs in Chicago or Minneapolis. Then I reached out to agents to try and piggyback. I learned what route booking was all about just by virtue of doing it.
And then, as time went on, I started looking at people’s tours and looking a little further. At some point I got this little seed in my head of, what happens if more of us do a better job of working together? I could see the success that would happen if an artist would come and do a club in Chicago… Incidentally, Jazz Coterie always does weeknight performances, never weekends. So, I would see what would happen when an artist would land in Chicago and maybe rent a car for a week. They’ve got one weekend in Chicago, then they come to Jazz Coterie which always does two consecutive weeknights, and then they go off to let’s say Minneapolis. Then it’s like, “wow, we just had a mini tour and there wasn’t a lot of travel hassle and we had a good experience here in the Midwest.”
From that experience I got to thinking what happens if more of us in some proximity here in the Midwest start working together? With that, I started making some calls to the usual suspects that you’re probably familiar with. From those that I could get through to, I come to find that this is not an original idea (laughs). All of these jazz clubs in the Midwest were all, to varying degrees, a little off-map, if you will. We’re not New York, we’re not Los Angeles, and have all thought about the same thing. What happens if more of us work together? It’s just that everybody’s busy and maybe nobody was crazy enough to work so hard to try to make this happen. Not to pat myself on the back but, for better or worse, I’m just one of those people that’s like, “that’s a good idea. I can’t stop until we give it a fighting chance.”
So, that’s the history of the Midwest Jazz Collective. It’s really kind of been the last year by way of email or Zoom, a few of us getting to know each other and, ultimately, getting a commitment. I think we have like fourteen clubs. Everybody fell in line to make a perfectly routed track with no bouncing around. I can’t believe it came together, but this Benny Benack tour is our first collaboratively routed tour as sort of a pilot I guess.
AAJ: So tell me if I have this correct. The idea is that by working together and organizing a route through all of your clubs, you can get musicians who normally wouldn’t tour through the Midwest and give them a viable route. Does that sound about right?
KK: I think that is the essence of the concept. Now Benny Benack has played several of these clubs before. I think the reason why we all agreed to him is that enough of us had a relationship with him. He’s a great spokesperson and a great advocate for the industry in general.
And another important piece of this Midwest Jazz Collective thing is that there is an educational component to it. I like to think there’s something unique in jazz when it comes to education, mentorship, and the history that the art form has. So, we also have like five universities along the route that are all bringing Benny in for a workshop or master class.
To get back to your question about the essence of the Midwest Jazz collective, I think yes, theoretically that is the long-term idea. These are all dedicated jazz clubs, they are not performing arts centers. They are small-room, 100 to 200-seat, intimate clubs. The idea is that the Midwest could become a viable financial and educational destination for touring artists. We want to potentially open the door to making something financially feasible, that would not otherwise be if these were all one-off gigs.
AAJ: Gotcha. You said before you’re not New York, L.A., or Chicago. Do you think that the Midwest has been overlooked in terms of touring?
KK: I mean, maybe yes and maybe no. Obviously, we have some anchor institutions like The Jazz Kitchen, Jazz Showcase, and Cafe CODA. There is a viable scene but emerging or established artists can go to Europe and the proximity of the markets make it reasonable for them to do a tour and hit a whole bunch of markets. When I mapped out all these clubs, the greatest distance between any two of us is a three-hour drive. I mean all of a sudden that just changes the dynamic.
AAJ: Well, I tour in the UK and Europe all the time and it’s so much more feasible. I have to admit that I’ve never even attempted touring through the Midwest for that very reason.
KK: Yeah, there you go. Who thinks about it? But the other thing that I think is cool is, maybe not the Midwest overall being overlooked because there are major metropolitan areas, but at least half of these clubs are in smaller markets and, yeah, overlooked unless we work really hard. I can tell you as a presenter that I work really hard to court people to come to our series.
It’s a lot of work for agents. We’re not looking to replace an agent, but to make an agent’s life easier because it is really hard to wrangle clubs (laughs), let alone get them lined up in an order that makes a viable route. This tour with Benny is like one day shy of three weeks where he is performing virtually every single night and has only a one-and-a-half to three-hour drive between these points.
AAJ: Yeah that’s perfect. But I noticed that even with the Jazz Coterie you still manage to get world class talent. I’m wondering how you are able to do that.
KK: Well, I just have to say that it’s hard work. I think part of this is my own empathy for some of these clubs in smaller markets. It’s easier with Jazz Coterie in the last two years because we treat artists really well. I’m sure many of them think, “I’m coming through Central Wisconsin where?” [laughs]. But they come.
I think that this is probably true of other smaller markets but I am so proud of our audience. They are amazingly appreciative and are amazing listeners. Artists almost invariably speak to that during the show. They play New York all the time and it makes sense. People in New York have got the world at their doorstep and they get a little desensitized to having a world class experience. In these smaller markets, not that we don’t have worldly traveling people (laughs), but for this kind of thing to happen, like a New York jazz club right here at home, makes people really appreciate it. And I think that love goes out to the artist and the artist goes back out into their world and it has become a lot easier for us to book some of these things.
In terms of finances, they are certainly making concessions to do Jazz Coterie but it’s like, “OK. You know what? You’re putting us up for two nights. It’s a Tuesday and a Wednesday. I’m not doing anything on a Tuesday or Wednesday otherwise. And my friends have told me we’re going to be safe and we’re going be appreciated.”
AAJ: You spoke earlier of the educational aspect of the Jazz Coterie. That seems to be important to you. Tell me about how that’s included in your program.
KK: Well, not only is it important, but it is absolutely critical to our long-term sustainability. We are not a 501(c)(3) even though it was something to consider. I just did not want to complicate my life any more than it is. The other thing is that, even before Jazz Coterie, I’ve had a pretty good relationship with the two area universities that have quite exceptional jazz studies programs. Some of these faculty people have been long-time friends so it was only natural that when we have an artist come in from outside almost all of them care about nurturing the next generation.
When we have an artist here it just works out so perfectly for Jazz Coterie. We put them up for two nights so they’ve got 48 hours in the same spot, and we have these two universities within just a jump away. We have always tried really hard to help facilitate workshops or master classes. I just have such personal enjoyment when that happens. An artist can have a really rich experience, not only with performance, but also being educators while they’re here in this wacky little stop off in Wisconsin.
But, from a financial standpoint, I have had friends and loyal Jazz Coterians come up to me and say, “there’s no way you can be making this work. We have a hundred people in an intimate room and there’s
Immanuel Wilkins
saxophone, alto
b.1997
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data-original-title=”” title=””>Immanuel Wilkins. This cannot be working out.” I’m like, “well, it really isn’t working out” (laughs). And they’re like, “what can I do? Can I give you some money?” This was very early on. I’m like, “no. I just cannot personally take money from you. We’re not a nonprofit.” I have to take the responsibility for building a market. This has to be self-sustaining from a marketing standpoint. But I did know that either I needed some help or that Jazz Coterie had to go away because it was not good financially… early on.
Because of the relationship with the universities, the one thing that I thought about early on is, why don’t I let these people who want to give money be student ticket sponsors? Let’s have a student ticket fund and give free tickets to any university music students who want them. I’ll tell you, I ask a dozen people a year and I have 100% follow through with contributions. I mean I could do more, but we essentially “sell” two hundred general admission tickets a year that we would not otherwise. These contributors are essentially buying general admission tickets for students and, without that, we would not exist.
AAJ: One of the things that I was really impressed with when I was looking at your Jazz Coterie lineup is that you program traditional jazz but also music that’s pretty boundary-pushing. I love that. Is that due to your own tastes or is your audience asking for that?
KK: You are asking super great questions because these are things I don’t always think about. Well, I’ll be honest, a lot of it just has to do with what’s passing by. You know what I mean? It really has to do with what works out. And, I will also be honest with this too, there definitely are artists that have come through the series that push my own boundaries. I’m probably partial to straight-ahead jazz singers (laughs). Sing me the songbook all day and I’m perfectly happy. But, I love having things I’m not so comfortable with come through the series and challenge me and I would say, without fail, it winds up being just a wonderful and miraculous experience.
Speaking of Immanuel Wilkins, it’s just one of my favorite shows. And would that be my normal go to? Probably not. And as far as our audiences are concerned, the truth is, these artists we bring to the series are not names you know with the exception of some jazz geeks and probably some university students. I mean, these are not household names and 80% of our audience come because they were brave enough to come once before, they didn’t know what to expect, they had an amazing experience, and they just come back because It’s going to be great. They might like one thing more than another, but whatever just happened was experiential and I appreciate it. That’s really our audience you know.
AAJ: I just have a couple more questions. Do you have advice for musicians who are looking for gigs in the Midwest or with the Collective once that gets established?
KK: Well, there’s two things. First of all, I have to admit that with this Midwest Jazz Collective we don’t quite know what’s happening next. This Benny Benack tour is happening and I’m intending to take the tour with Benny just so I can meet everybody face-to-face and see firsthand how the club owners feel about this. If all goes well, I think the ideal scenario is that we might collectively route talent on a quarterly basis. Obviously, there’s a lot to it. I think even quarterly would be ambitious but, to me, quarterly seems to make sense.
I think everybody in this collective which, incidentally, is not intended to be exclusive… If there are more dedicated jazz clubs that want to jump on board that’s super awesome. It’s an open door. It’s not always going to work for everybody and I get it. But I think the idea is that we would have some sort of polling process amongst us because I think the idea of working together is in some selfish interest of the clubs themselves. Like, “hey. Who have I really been interested in and really cared about that I can’t quite get to make happen on my own?” We can poll for that. Actually, we did probably over a year ago. We did an initial poll and had a list of a dozen artists that were on the short list. So that’s one leg of an answer.
But another interesting component of this Midwest jazz Collective is if we can get ourselves organized, or maybe have our own owner’s website and keep it populated with everything we’re all doing independently, we can more easily identify what artists are coming through that are close and see if we can’t reach out to agents and piggyback on things that are already happening. The other thing that I think is cool, and this is for Midwest artists, is that all of these clubs have incredible relationships with incredible musician communities right in their own backyard. I think everyone feels the spirit that this might be a great opportunity for our great Midwest talent to be able to have an easier go of routing themselves through the Midwest. How that all actually shakes out in terms of process and formula (laughs), I don’t know, but at least that is the spirit of the collective I believe.
AAJ: To be determined then?
KK: Yeah, lots of this is TBD. I think we get through this Benny Benak thing and see what sort of enthusiasm there is for keeping it alive. I suspect that there will be. I anticipate a good experience.
AAJ: Nice. This is the last question I had prepared for you. I’m just curious about your thoughts on the health of live jazz and what your outlook is moving into the future.
KK: Well, I can only speak for my own little experience here in central Wisconsin. We have an amazing and vibrant community of jazz musicians. Of course I’m biased. Maybe it’s special, maybe it isn’t, but it’s vibrant. We have several venues that are dedicated to jazz on a particular night of the week and attendance is good. Those are typically free events.
With Jazz Coterie, we financially struggle to hold it together, but we do fill up rooms and people are so appreciative. It feels vibrant to me and very hopeful. I mean I know it’s a niche space. I think the thing, as a marketer and as an independent presenter, is the thrill I get most… Jazz might carry some baggage with it. People who don’t know that they are jazz fans think of jazz as either end of the spectrum. It’s either smooth jazz or it’s avant-garde acid-jazz or something. They don’t realize that there’s this wonderful space of broadly appealing music in the middle. Or not even In the middle, still on the fringes (laughs). But when people come to shows, whatever brings them there, whether it’s coercive marketing (laughs) or some loyalty to a friend, and they walk away with a great experience, and I see that happen with every show that we put on, that just makes me wildly hopeful for the future of jazz. Will it ever be what it was in the mid-century where jazz was the pop music art form? I’m not super sure but what’s the fun in that (laughs)?
AAJ: I like your optimism and I’m happy to hear that. Is there anything that I missed? Anything that you want to talk about that I didn’t address?
KK: Maybe just two things come to mind. I’m so excited to have Benny as an advocate for all of this. I think he really gets what we’re trying to do and he cares so much about the future of jazz and about education. I could not be happier that he is our sort of mascot or spokesperson for this launch. So, that comes to mind.
The other thing that comes to mind is I am just so grateful and happy that, with these jazz clubs, we were able to pull this together. Many of them have gone out on a limb, for the sake of efficient routing, and are bringing a nationally touring act, in some cases on a Monday or Tuesday night when they would otherwise never book anything like that other than on a weekend. So, they’re taking a risk in the spirit of all of this. Those are the two things that come to mind.